The Insider | Guy Hollingworth

By Damian Jennings - Monday, April 29, 2019

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In this week's show, we're honoured to have Guy Hollingworth. Barrister by day. Astonishing magician by night

Guy chats with us about how he got into magic, his new stage act, his close up work, and some stuff about ripping up cards.

Audio quality isn't quite as good as usual, because Guy's bluetooth lawyer-y headset seemed to zealously over compress the audio. Hope you find the content interesting though!


The Insider: Hello and welcome to this week's episode of The Insider podcast, brought to you, as ever, by Vanishing Inc. We are lucky enough to have on the line today Mr. Guy Hollingworth. Guy, how are you this afternoon?

Hollingworth: I'm very well, thank you.

The Insider: Jolly good. It's a 30-minute show. There's no time for pleasantries. We're going to kick off. What's your origin story? You have 43 seconds.

Hollingworth: Well, I started magic with a magic club at school. Didn't have much particular interest, but went along out of curiosity. It was about the same time that The Best of Magic was being shown on TV and I saw Channing Pollock, who I thought was the coolest guy I'd ever seen, and I thought that was amazing and wanted to learn magic. Found I couldn't really pull off that kind of cool, suave thing at that age and so didn't know what to do, and I couldn't really do a stage act anyway. Then saw Ricky Jay on The Secret Cabaret and I thought, "Oh, I could do close-up magic. That's quite cool." Briefly tried to be David Williamson when I saw him, and that didn't work very well.

The Insider: I think we've all done that.

Hollingworth: Finally, went back to sort of doing Ricky Jay type material in the sort of way that Channing Pollock might have done it, if he'd done that sort of thing, which he didn't. And then I came out with a way of tearing a card and putting it back together, and someone asked me to be on TV and that was a good way of starting stuff, and then I started doing lectures and wrote a book, and then I became a lawyer.

The Insider: Okay, that's it for this week's episode of The Insider. Thanks very much, Guy.

                You wrote samples and as I researched on the internet, it was classics or history socs or rugger practice or this dwindling magic club. Why did you pick that? Was it because the others were absolutely of no interest to you or was there something that drew you to the Prestige Society?

Hollingworth: Basically, on one view it's because the others were so awful. Yes, we had these long lunch breaks and we were supposed to do something productive with them and so there were lots of societies that were related to the subjects that everyone was studying or there were various sporting activities. Then there was this thing called the Prestige Society which was magic and I was not a real fan of magic but I was just sort of intrigued. So I thought, "Well, I will go along and see what it's all about," and it turned out it wasn't really about anything because there weren't any members. It was sort of stuck on a list because some people had started it years ago and no one had taken it off the list. But no one actually went or did anything there. So it was just me and one friend who went along. The same, more or less out of curiosity and so, yeah, that was it, it wasn't through a love of magic. But it was that that sort of made me more aware of magic I suppose, made me keep an eye out for it and then watching it on TV.

The Insider: So how does a magic club work with two members that aren't magicians? What did you do? Go to the library?

Hollingworth: Well sort of, I mean to be honest we didn't really do anything. It was, just there was a classroom allocated. Sorta of an absentee teacher who was notionally supposed to be in charge of it, but he never came along. So it really was just somewhere that we could go and hide while other people where running around in the rain and the mud playing rugby, and if anyone came and said "What are you two doing here?" We could say "Oh, we're the Magic Club," and they'd just leave us alone. So it wasn't much more than that to start with.

                I went to the local library, there where I lived, and they had some magic books that you could borrow. Which is unsurprising, given that it's a library. 

The Insider: Yes!

Hollingworth: They had Expert Card Technique and they had a Walter Gibson book. It was pretty difficult stuff, actually.

The Insider: Yeah.

Hollingworth: But of course, I didn't know that. I just thought, "Well, that's a magic book."

The Insider: Okay.

Hollingworth: So I got it, and I brought it in, and we sort of started looking through it. And we just started working through it. And I mean, the first thing that we learned was the Charlie Miller push out strip out shuffle. Just because, well, that was just something there we sort of picked, said, "Oh, that looks interesting." Although, you know what, in hindsight I'm really pleased about that because my way of starting magic wasn't getting a magic kit that was for children and being able to do self-working tricks, or going into a magic shop, and you know... I've never had the experience of being able to pick something up and do it straight away, and think, "Oh, that's cool. I like magic because I can do that."

The Insider: Right.

Hollingworth: For me, magic from the beginning-

The Insider: Was always difficult.

Hollingworth: Was always... Yeah, I mean, in hindsight that was difficult. But I didn't even think it was difficult. I was learning to play the piano. I was at school. I was in learning mode. Everything was about learning, and you don't expect to be good at sport or at music or anything until you practice. And I was used to reading books and learning things.

The Insider: So why should it be any different?

Hollingworth: Exactly! It was never a question of, "Oh, this is really difficult. I wonder if there's any easier to do." It was just, "Well, I'm now by mistake a member of a magic club. I suppose I'd better learn some magic; I guess this is what it is." And so I just did.

The Insider: How interesting. You did a show at the school open day with aforementioned friend, Ben. So if your studies were Expert Card Technique, what did you do at the open day show? Do you remember?

Hollingworth: Well, this is the trouble. Yes, our great scam worked quite well, until we found out that there were these open days at the end of a school year where you put on shows so the people who were coming the following year could come and see what the school was all about. And so we kind of got our arm very heavily twisted into doing a show, because we were the magic club, and they thought that would be interesting. And we hadn't really done any shows. So I can't remember an awful lot of it. I mean, we literally did just do some of that stuff. I can't even remember what tricks we would have done, but some stuff from Expert Card Technique. I mean, I did some coin things. I literally just had a coin and did some false transfers. I mean, there was nothing really like a routine. I think I just did something and then Ben did something and so on and so forth. We were kind of aware that we needed a big finish.

The Insider: Okay.

Hollingworth: And so we got a book. I think it might have been a Peter Eldin book, or was it the Penguin Book, or the Puffin Book of Magic? It was something which was more accessible, actually. And I can't remember where we got that from; maybe it was in the library. And there was some ridiculous trick that sort of involved Chinese-looking apparatus. There was a box and it had scrolls in it, and it had a false bottom in the box, so you basically just turned it round and you put weird scrolls in, and then they changed and came out. It was completely corny, and I made it out of bits of cardboard and painted the stereotypical Chinese-looking nonsense. And that was our big finish. So-

The Insider: Wow.

Hollingworth: It was awful! But it then did mean that people thought, "Oh, well, there's a magic club at the school. Well, maybe that's interesting." And those kids who were coming the following year, they then came along and wanted to join. So we then had a bit more responsibility, because we then had to work out what we could actually do at a magic club, and arrange some events and even try and teach some other people some magic. So we were sort of kick-started into actually finding out more about it.

The Insider: How wonderful. So you said in the beginning that it was The Secret Cabaret which I remember vividly, as well, and The Best of Magic and Ricky Jay and Pollock, but after all of that time... I'm sorry, I don't mean to suggest you're frightfully old; we are of a similar age, I believe. But you did a classic Pollock-esque act at this year's Magifest. Why did it take you so long to try that kind of performance?

Hollingworth: Well, I sort of tried a bit in the early days. So I joined Zodiac Magic Club, which is in West London, when I was 16, because that's when they allow members. I don't think there were the Young Magician's Club or the Magic Circle at the time, so I couldn't join the Magic Circle. So I tried everything at the Zodiac Club, and they had various competitions you could go in for. And it was a relatively small venue, so you know, they're a stage competition. You could get away with doing fairly small things. So I did try and do back palming, and I did various silent routines... But again, in hindsight, were pretty blooming awful, but I did try that sort of stuff.

                But the reality is, it's really hard, I think, when you're a child and you're at school and you've got other things to do. It's quite easy to learn a card trick and fiddle around with it and show it to a few people and practice it and get better at it. It's really hard to actually a) have the time and b) the discipline to put together a stage act. And then, where on earth do you do it? You can't just show a stage act to your friends at school. So it just became really impractical.
                So doing card tricks was just easier. Not technically, but just practically. Because I could always have a pack of cards with me, and I could sort of do stuff. So it just sort of happened. But I'd always wanted to do a stage act. But funnily enough, the more I got into doing card magic, the more difficult it seemed to be to stop that and put a stage act together. Although I did do magic full-time for a couple of years, it was doing sort of close-up and walk-around, so there was no commercial incentive to do it. 
                Then when I started doing law, magic sort of had to go on the back burner for a bit, because I didn't have time to do both. I needed to get established in law before I could start doing magic again. So it was years later, when magic was a hobby and I had a little bit more time, that I thought, "Well, I really do want to go back to the way I started, and getting into doing a stage act?" And I'd had the idea of what I wanted to do 10, 12 years ago, I suppose. 

The Insider: Right.

Hollingworth: And it has just taken time to put it all together. And then finally, it was about two and a half years ago. I was taking a sabbatical off work... Actually, to do a completely different show, sort of magic play almost, I suppose; something I'd written with a friend. And I'd taken six months off work to do that. Unfortunately, it fell apart. There were problems getting it on for various reasons. So I had this time off, and I thought, "Well, fine. I'll take the time to actually do my stage act." So I took that time and I managed to get a week at The Magic Castle at the end of that six-month period as a kind of target.

The Insider: Nice.

Hollingworth: So I had to have a stage act-

The Insider: You had a deadline.

Hollingworth: By then. Yeah. That's when it was first done, and then since then, I've been trying to improve it and refine it and change bits, and I've been doing it since then. Including, as you say, at Magifest. I mean, I did it at the session a year or so ago, and then Magifest this time, so yeah.

The Insider: Who helped you create the act? Or was it you in your bedroom, crying?

Hollingworth: It almost wrote itself in some ways. I kind of had an idea of what I wanted to do. I knew a character that I thought I could get away with, or that I am. I don't have a character, as such, but through doing quite a lot of performing and close-up, I sort of feel I've established the personality that, like it or not, that's sort of who I am.

The Insider: Sure.

Hollingworth: And thinking of that Channing Pollock-ish style. I wanted something old-fashioned. I wanted to be in tails. I even do close-up shows in tails; I just think it's a nice look, and it sort of sets you apart a bit. So I knew I wanted to do that, and so I wanted it to be classical. So I wanted the idea of the act to be modern techniques, and things that would hopefully thaw the modern audience; they're not just old tricks that have been around for a long time. I wanted the material to be new, but I wanted it to feel like it was the sort of material that magicians would have been doing years and years ago.

The Insider: Right.

Hollingworth: So doing card things, doing billiard balls, that kind of thing; it was fairly obvious what the material was going to be. I had a very clear idea that I wanted it to be fairly simple to understand. I think a lot of stage manipulation, there isn't a clear plot. It's not clear what's happening; there's just lots of stuff going on, which sometimes is effective, but I wanted it to be quite clear and quite magical.

                So the actual plots and the tricks, yes, I did come up with those myself. Then various people helped me out with bits and pieces when I was working on it. Luis De Matos was enormously helpful; he very kindly invited me to go over to his wonderful studio [crosstalk 00:12:19]

The Insider: It's an amazing place.

Hollingworth: Well, it is. And it's used for various purposes, but sometimes it's not in use and there's a performing space there-

The Insider: Sure.

Hollingworth: You can come over and use it to rehearse, and-

The Insider: Oh, how wonderful.

Hollingworth: He was amazing, so he gave me a lot of help with it, and he helped me mix music and give me some tips on... Well, more than tips. Some really useful advice on handling the microphone-

The Insider: Right.

Hollingworth: And how to give sound cues, and all sort of things like that.

The Insider: That you wouldn't have had to deal with doing close-up, or doing your normal card stuff; it's just things that wouldn't have crossed your mind, I imagine.

Hollingworth: Exactly, yeah. Yeah, things like the microphone. I wanted to have a microphone. I speak during the act. So the effects themselves are performed silently to music, but I do talk in between the effects. Which I think gives it... Again, that's part of my personality, and I kind of like the idea of it almost being like a singer performing a set, you know?

The Insider: Sure.

Hollingworth: You kind of do your bit and then talk in between them. So that was the idea that I had in mind. So I liked the idea of having an old-fashioned microphone, something you might have seen in the 1930s nightclub. So I had this microphone, and it was really surprising. I really didn't know what to do with it, and I was quite frightened to touch it.

The Insider: Right, yeah.

Hollingworth: I sort of felt, "Well, it's on the stage, and it's just there." And I was sort of moving around it awkwardly, and he said to me, "Why don't you move it? Move it when you need it, and then move off to one side." And I thought, "Oh, doesn't that look a bit weird, or a bit messy, or as though I haven't planned it out?" And he made a really important, really useful point. He said, "Not at all." He said, "It makes you look in command of the stage." He said, "If I [comed 00:14:03] into your house, I would never move a light from one position to another so that I could see something more clearly in your house. That would be an extraordinary thing to do. But if you're reading a book, and there's not enough light, then of course you're going to go and move a light, and put it there, and move it over there. Because it's your space. So actually moving the props like that, it isn't a weird thing to do at all. It shows that you're comfortable in your home, and people are coming into your home and watching you perform."

The Insider: Right.

Hollingworth: Which I thought was a really nice way of looking at it.

The Insider: Yeah, yeah, yeah, smart.

Hollingworth: And the other thing, the other tip that he gave me, that was amazing: He said, "Moving the microphone; that's your sound cue. You've then got a guy in the sound desk who doesn't have to be following a script. Doesn't have to speak the same language. You just tell him, 'It's not when I finish talking. When I move the microphone to the side, and you can see that from anywhere in the auditorium, you push the next track button and that's it.'" And it does make things extremely simple. So those kind of things never crossed my mind doing card tricks.

The Insider: How lucky to have friends like this.

Hollingworth: Yeah, absolutely. And then back in London, James Freedman spent some time with me; Rich McDougall spent some time with me going through things and so, as you say, I've been very lucky to have good friends who were able to help me.

The Insider: No, I think that's an important thing that people sometimes miss when working on an act, is getting that outside pair of eyes. And obviously, you're well-connected and have fortunate eyes to look at them, but even anybody listening to this that doesn't know Freedman and whoever else and Luis De Matos... It's like, "Get a friend. You can get somebody to just look at it."

Hollingworth: Yeah. It's a very solitary pursuit most of the time, magic. And it's one of the things that a lot of people who do magic like about it, I think. I quite like being able to go and shut myself in a room and work on something.

The Insider: Sure.

Hollingworth: But it's very unusual for any kind of performance to be completely isolated. You know, it's completely normal. When I did my one-man show a few years ago, having a director on board was absolutely essential, and speaking to any kind of producers who were going to put the show on. The first thing they want to know is-

The Insider: Who's directing.

Hollingworth: Who the director is, and who else is involved. The idea that you'd be able to go to someone and say, "Well, no one; it's just me..." That just doesn't really exist, I think, in anything other than magic. And I think it's very important and useful to have input from others. It doesn't necessarily mean you listen-

The Insider: Absolutely.

Hollingworth: To everything that everyone says. You need to find people whose advice and opinions you trust and have faith in. But yes, having that input, I think, is crucial.

The Insider: Stage work aside, you're best known for your card magic. And your act consists mainly of original material. How and when did you start developing your own stuff?

Hollingworth: Well, it was sort of that process from school onwards. As I say, I started at this little Prestige Society at 13 or 14, and then by the time I was 15, 16, starting to learn more and go along to magic clubs, but even at that stage, I was sort of fiddling around doing my own bits of material. And the creative side of it was always quite important. Again, I suppose, being at school... You know, I was doing art and photography and other creative things as well as academic studies. And the creative side of things has always been important to me. I've always enjoyed that. So to be honest, just learning other people's materials. And I learned sleights and things from Expert Card Technique, but even in the beginning, I was putting together my own routines. A lot of them, of course, were either hopeless or reinventing things other people had come up with already-

The Insider: Sure.

Hollingworth: But the idea of coming up with your own material, it was always a very important part of it for me, and part of the satisfaction of doing magic. And yeah, I don't want it to sound arrogant. I'm not saying it's because I don't think other people's material is good. Far from it; it's just part of the fun of it. Because with the exception of a couple of years when I did do it full-time, magic has not been my main or principal source of income, so I don't have that commercial imperative. I can kind of do what I want to, and so there's no point in doing it if it's not fun.

The Insider: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hollingworth: And for me, a lot of the fun is in creating things.

The Insider: Yeah, you're not having to go out doing-

Hollingworth: So it's-

The Insider: Ring Flight Revolution and Omni Deck 17 times a week, so-

Hollingworth: Yeah. And when I was doing it commercially, even then, I was trying to do some of my own material. Not all of it is particularly suited for going around tables, but some of it I certainly was doing, some of my own material. And for me, there's a problem-solving element to it. So for the torn and restored card, the reformation thing, that was seeing the David Copperfield torn asunder trick with the torn and restored baseball card on TV and thinking, "Wow, that's a great plot." And although I didn't know how it was done, and I still don't know any details about how it's done, I'm fairly sure it's not something that could be done regularly, commercially, or in a live setting. And I thought, "Well, it would be great to find a way of doing that." And it was really an exercise, almost like a puzzle, to try and figure out a way of doing it, rather than thinking, "Oh, this is a trick that I necessarily am going to use."

                And then after I did figure out a way, it then became something that became part of my performing repertoire. So it's not always a question of starting out "What would be a great trick or a commercial trick?" Sometimes it is just abstractly thinking, "Well, that would be quite an interesting thing to try and think about."

The Insider: A problem, a puzzle to solve.

Hollingworth: Yeah, exactly.

The Insider: How important was the reformation in your career, do you think?

Hollingworth: Well, I've been incredibly lucky. Considering, as I say, I'm an amateur, I get the opportunity to perform at conventions and shows around the world, and I get offers to do TV, which at the moment I'm not really looking to do that sort of thing, but you know. There are lots of opportunities that have been presented to me. And I feel incredibly fortunate for that. Particularly, as I say, because I'm not actively trying to-

The Insider: Sure, sure, sure.

Hollingworth: Cultivate that. I'm not going out looking-

The Insider: No, I didn't mean with your legal career, but the reformation was something that seemed to springboard you into the magical world.

Hollingworth: Exactly. So, from that perspective, it was something that was enormously important, because it was something that seemed to create interest. As I say, I didn't particularly expect it to, or intend it to, but it was something that I suppose was a bit different. And it was convenient, because it was a trick that I could do at conventions. So while I was traveling around just as a kid visiting places, it was a good thing to do in a bar, at the hotel bar, at a convention. And someone would say, "Oh, that's cool. Come and show it to so-and-so." And it was as a result of that I ended up meeting a lot of my heroes in magic who were incredibly kind to me, and I traveled around the US when I was 19 or 20. And as a result of having met magicians like David Williamson at conventions in the UK beforehand, it was a way in. And it was a way of showing them something, and hopefully them thinking, "Oh, he's not a complete bozo-"

The Insider: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hollingworth: And then they said, "Oh, well, if you're in the US, look me up." And I did, and he then put me in touch with other people, and I got to know Mike Caveny that way, who... These people who subsequently have become friends, and who've been very helpful and kind to me in my career. And I suppose it was off the back of that also I met Gary Ouellet, who saw the trick and thought it would work for World's Greatest Magic.

The Insider: Right.

Hollingworth: Which, again, I had no real concept of what that was when I was over here in the UK. I was in the middle of university studies. But I think at the time, it was quite a big magic show in the US. There wasn't the Netflix and all of that content at the time, and so new magic shows were more unusual. And so I think people saw it on that, and so I think... That's a long answer to your question... It has been extremely important.

The Insider: The one-man show, "Expert at the Card Table." How did that come about, and what did you learn on the journey?

Hollingworth: Well, it came about again almost by accident. So my friend Paul Wilson, Paul Wilson who was... I think he was living in Edinburgh, certainly in Scotland at the time, and this is more than 20 years ago. He used to do a regular show every year. Or a show at the magic, at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. And he found he couldn't do one one year, because of other work commitments, and so he asked me if I'd like to step in. And it turned out the programs had already been printed, so it already had the name of the show. And he'd decided to call the show, "The Expert at the Card Table." I don't think he had any particular intention of tying it into the book. It was just a suitable name for a show about card effects.

The Insider: Sure.

Hollingworth: But it was already set, so I had to do a show with that name. And at around about the same time, I'd read a review in Genii Magazine of the book, "The Man Who Was Erdnase," which was all about this theory that Erdnase may have been Milton Andrews. So I started reading a bit more into that. Well, at the time, the first time I did the show, I knew very little more than that being a possibility. So when I did the show at the Edinburgh festival, I basically did my own card routines, my repertoire, but I sort of interspersed it with bits about, "Well, there's this really interesting book, and no one quite knows who wrote it, but one theory is that the guy was a murderer, and this, that, and the other." And I found that people were actually just as interested, if not more interested in the story, than they were about my magic, which probably tells you something about my magic, but anyway. It seemed it was at least equally important.

                So I thought, "Well, maybe I should try and actually put together a proper show and have some kind of proper dramatic structure or narrative to it." And since then, I've tried so many different versions, and I hope it's improved and changed over the years. So then about ten years ago, a friend of mine who's a producer, we sort of discussed doing it. He said, "Well, let's do it at the Edinburgh festival again, but this time, let's do it properly in a bigger venue. And let's actually have it marketed, and have it have a proper director." He knew Neil Patrick Harris, and was doing a play with him. And Neil was interested in magic, and so we spoke. Actually, we were all playing poker together at the time. And-

The Insider: Playing poker with Doogie Howser, how cool.

Hollingworth: They're pretty cool, yeah. It's funny, a lot of people say, "Well, why do people want to play poker with magicians?" And the answer is actually, "Well, there are quite a few of us who are magicians who play in the group together, so we sort of all keep each other honest."

The Insider: Keep an eye, yeah, yeah.

Hollingworth: Exactly. Yeah. So I met Neil through that, and so he became involved, which was amazing.

The Insider: Absolutely.

Hollingworth: And so we did the show in Edinburgh. Since then, I've done it a few times since. And every time I do it, I sort of think about it, and think how it could be improved. I mentioned I've been working on a completely different show with a friend, and the script on that show was really crucial. Because there were two people involved, and it was a much, much more detailed narrative, so we actually worked with a writer on that, although we ended up not using that script. The whole process of really going over the script over and over again made me see a lot of the shortcomings in the script for my own one-man show, so I've really been working hard on that and going back over it. So I've now got sort of a new, hopefully much-improved version that I'm doing this year.

The Insider: Is there a particular plot that's grabbed your interest recently?

Hollingworth: Yes, two, actually. One that I'm fairly far advanced with coming up with what I think my solution is going to be is Wild Card.

The Insider: Ah!

Hollingworth: I've always liked the idea of Wild Card because a lot of magic happens in it-

The Insider: So do I.

Hollingworth: But I've never seen a presentation that I find logical or satisfactory, and I find the whole idea of getting out eight cards that are all the same and then changing them to eight different cards that are all the same weird. So I've been trying to find a good way of doing that. And I've got a method that I'm reasonably happy with, that I'm starting to try out. So that's one thing. Well, probably, that's my main answer. The other thing I was going to say is from the stage act perspective. Kind of an obvious trick that I think would be something I'd like to put into my stage act at some point, possibly, is Linking Rings. Because again, that fits with the idea of being sort of a classic trick.

The Insider: Absolutely.

Hollingworth: But just saying it out loud, I can hear myself and other magicians just sort of sighing and thinking, "Oh, Linking Rings." Because it's so overdone and there are so few different ways of doing it. I can think of a few amazing versions of it that are out there, but as I said before, I'm not really interested in doing somebody else's version.

The Insider: Right.

Hollingworth: And I have no idea of how I would come up with a way-

The Insider: How to make it yours.

Hollingworth: Exactly.

The Insider: Yeah.

Hollingworth: So in principle, I like the idea of doing it, but I would want to do something that really is quite different from other-

The Insider: Yeah, because quite often with your card magic, you'll take a classic plot and twist it into a Hollingworth-y sort of way. But okay, couple of special gimmicky things aside, it's a ring with a hole in it, so what-

Hollingworth: Yeah.

The Insider: What can-

Hollingworth: Exactly.

The Insider: What would Hollingworth do? That's interesting, there.

Hollingworth: Well, yes. So I don't know, I-

The Insider: Magicians do have a thing about the Linking Rings that it's overdone, and I can see if you were working for magicians, but with lay audiences, I still think a lot of people haven't seen it.

Hollingworth: Yeah, no, I think you're right. So it's something that, I say, it just sort of fits with the aesthetic of the show, and I think it could work, but at the moment I haven't figured out any way that I would actually do it, so I don't know. Maybe I will, maybe I won't.

The Insider: So if people want to, say... Just because of your accent, I don't imagine you're hugely prolific on social media, but is there any way people can keep up with what your antics are, should they wish to?

Hollingworth: Well, as you say, I'm really rather hopeless at social media. I do have a Facebook page and a Twitter account, and I'm useless at looking at or updating either of them. I got a bit turned off Twitter. It just seems everything now is about Brexit and Trump, and I just sort of think, "Are you actually allowed to put anything on Twitter that isn't about one of those two topics?"

The Insider: I'm not sure.

Hollingworth: I'm not sure you are, but if you are, maybe I'll start doing that.

The Insider: Maybe you could start a revolution.

Hollingworth: Yeah, that's a good idea. Yeah, maybe we need one of those.

The Insider: And a website? You probably have-

Hollingworth: I do have a website, yes. Yes, I do. That will have details of public shows-

The Insider: Oh, yeah.

Hollingworth: And everything. There are ways and means.

The Insider: Perfect. Guy, thank you so much for taking the time this afternoon to talk to us.

Hollingworth: Thanks a lot!

The Insider: I really appreciate it.

Hollingworth: Pleasure.

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