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The Insider | Rick Holcombe

By Damian Jennings - Tuesday, March 11, 2025

In this episode, Damian interviews Rick Holcombe, one of the leading authorities in contemporary coin magic. Rick shares his journey into magic, emphasizing the importance of simplicity and portability in coin routines. He discusses his everyday carry of coins, the process of refreshing classic tricks, and the creative inspiration behind his routines. Rick also highlights the practical techniques for close-up magic, the differences between writing and video tutorials, and his proudest creations.

His new book, Calico is available right here.

Audio Version

Video Version

Chapters

00:00 The Magic Origin Story
02:11 Simplicity and Portability in Coin Magic
05:02 Everyday Carry: The Essential Coin Set
08:48 Refreshing Classics: Modernizing Magic Routines
14:14 The Creative Process: Inspiration and Development
21:03 Reinventing Established Sleights
23:28 The Importance of Performance and Feedback
25:09 Fearlessness in the Age of Anonymity
26:13 Mastering the French Drop: Common Mistakes
28:11 Bringing Life to Coin Magic
31:53 Practical Techniques for Close-Up Magic
33:49 The Art of Writing vs. Video Tutorials
35:54 Proud Moments in Coin Magic
39:53 Influences and Inspirations in Coin Magic
41:46 Understanding the Target Audience for Coin Magic
44:32 The Appeal of Coin Magic for Beginners
48:25 Quickfire Questions and Closing Thoughts

AI Transcript

Damian (00:00.866) Hello and welcome to today's episode of the Insider brought to you as ever by the delightful people at Vanishing Ink Magic. My guest today has firmly established himself as the leading authority in contemporary coin magic. He mixes technical chops with entertaining and engaging performances through his, and I'm gonna say it, I'm gonna say it, modernization of coin magic. And he happens to have a new book coming out very soon.

by the lovely people at Feli's Keen Magic called Calico. Ladies and gentlemen, it's Rick Holcomb. Rick, how are you this morning?

Rick Holcombe (00:34.022) I'm doing great, Damien. Thanks for having me on the podcast. I'm glad to be here.

Damian (00:39.352) Thank you for doing it. You know the score, what's your magic origin story? You have got 19 seconds.

Rick Holcombe (00:47.685) A typical start about 12 years old. Found a book while we were moving houses. Caught the bug. Got birthday gifts, Christmas gifts. The Tarbell set. Mark Wilson's book.

Stopped doing magic after about a year or two without an audience, just my family. Rediscovered magic at 27. I'm now 43. And really in the past seven, eight years, this hobby has accelerated for me because I became a stay at home dad. And I had this, this new time.

Damian (01:36.878) Mm.

Rick Holcombe (01:39.649) And here we are.

Damian (01:41.837) Well, for any stay at home parents that are struggling to find time, Rick's Journey might not be the same as yours. And if you can't fit the time in the day just to have a sandwich, that's okay too. Now you seem to emphasize simplicity and portability in coin magic. How do you balance that kind of minimalism with creating the most impactful magical moments that you can?

especially when you're designing routines.

Rick Holcombe (02:15.127) I like that question. I think that was born out of being a stay at home dad. Coin magic is somehow, it's easy to work on something throughout the day. You can have one or a few coins just in your pocket. So even if you're just trying to polish up your technique, classic palm and

Damian (02:32.12) Mm-hmm.

Rick Holcombe (02:43.653) and transitioning to different palms. You can do that while you're... I think back years ago, now my daughters are 11 and nine, but when they were a newborn and a three-year-old, part of your day is watching them while they are watching their favorite show or maybe they're eating lunch. So...

Damian (03:01.496) Mm-hmm.

Rick Holcombe (03:13.495) I'm busy monitoring them, but I was finding myself having these blocks of time where I could be practicing a move or just a little sequence maybe. And then if I have to quickly stop, these go in my pocket and I wear cards. You have similar opportunities maybe, but...

Damian (03:19.852) of time where I can be practicing a move or just a little sequence maybe. And then if I have to quickly stop, these go in my pocket. Where cards, you have similar opportunities maybe, but you don't

Rick Holcombe (03:40.995) You don't have to worry about your coins getting bent or setting the deck down and then a toddler comes by and scatters the, you know. So.

Damian (03:43.72) Sure.

Damian (03:51.832) Yes.

Rick Holcombe (03:54.559) I got used to just always every day having my coins on me. And from that, the material developed and I'm working on various different things. I'm learning other people's material along the way. And then, you know, eventually your own ideas come about with. So I'd say part of that is the

Damian (04:22.318) So I'd say part of that is the limiting factor.

Rick Holcombe (04:24.281) The limiting factor can actually help your creativity, help the creation process. So if you decide to only carry one coin on you or a copper coin and a silver coin, eventually these ideas come out and the minimalism starts first. It's not an afterthought to how can I keep reducing something? Now I'm starting with

Damian (04:28.974) creativity, help the creation process. So if you decide to only carry one coin on it, or a copper coin and a silver coin, eventually these ideas come out and the minimalism starts first, it's not an afterthought to how can I keep reducing something. Now I'm starting with the lowest common denominator and

Rick Holcombe (04:55.033) the lowest common denominator and seeing what I can do with that.

Damian (05:02.306) Yeah, it makes complete sense. So what is in your pocket as your everyday carry?

Rick Holcombe (05:09.783) Right now, I just carry four coins in a shell. And I keep three coins loose. And the coin at the shell is in a coin purse. And I have a ton of stuff I do with just three coins. But having that shelled coin, you know, for a good coins across or coins through the table.

Damian (05:15.233) Okay.

Rick Holcombe (05:41.471) Normally I have so that's in my left pocket. In my other pocket, I have a set of coins that I largely developed the material in Calico with. So this is, I talk about this in the book, but a lot of that material spawned from a routine from Jeff Lada called copsilbrass.

Damian (05:57.871) So this is, I talk about this in the book.

Damian (06:05.614) But not the traditional copper silver brass gimmicks that we know.

Rick Holcombe (06:09.719) And it was his idea to recreate the copper silver brass trick, the gimmick. But his trick doesn't use the gimmick. It uses a copper silver coin.

Yeah.

So you have a normal silver, a normal copper, a normal Chinese, and then the copper silver coin. So I loved that trick and I would just carry those four coins on me. And so over the years, kind of the same process, I had those coins and nothing else. And then other material started spinning off of that trick. And a lot of that became

this book.

Damian (06:58.968) So it's like necessity being the mother of all invention. If you have only that set of coins, what else can you do with it if you were on a desert island or whatever and after a certain amount of times checking your children aren't killing themselves, something pops in your brain.

Rick Holcombe (07:17.411) Right. I was thinking recently, I picked up Josh's the particle system. And I often would think of this set of coins as a, you know, do it all set of coins. Because you can do a one coin routine, obviously, with just the silver coin, you can do copper silver stuff.

So involving the spectator, having a transposition. And then you can use the Chinese coin and have these like really crazy transpositions with three coins. And I started thinking how much I could do with just these four coins. You could do a hanging coins thing. You can do a coins across with three different coins. So.

Damian (08:02.734) That's all.

Rick Holcombe (08:15.681) Really, I will often just carry that on me, that set of coins. And a copper silver coin's great because it's a gimmicked coin, so you can get really surprising visuals. But unlike a shell, you can't dent it or bend it. And so that's a great everyday carry little set.

Damian (08:19.694) Right.

Rick Holcombe (08:44.835) you can bang around with that.

Damian (08:48.106) no harm will come to them. Talking of audience participation with Copper Silver and things, when you work on Roth's Hanging Coins, which you changed to silver suspension, adds a bunch of audience participation with the torch, flashlight bit. How do you identify opportunities to refresh classics of magic without

Rick Holcombe (08:49.807) Yeah.

Damian (09:17.686) weakening them or making them worse. Do you know what I mean?

Rick Holcombe (09:23.845) Yeah, yeah, a lot of tricks are ruined by quote unquote improvements.

Damian (09:32.183) Absolutely.

Rick Holcombe (09:34.913) And that particular trick spawned from an idea from Curtis Kam, who's one of my coin idols, one of the most forward-thinking magicians, and especially in coin magic. And I think the general idea goes back to Robert Houdin or maybe T. Nelson Down's

producing coins from a candlelight. So there's a gimmicked candle with a hollow section and you know, coins were acquired and then produced from the flame. So Curtis...

I don't think he was going from that trick. He was trying to solve David Roth's hanging coins because the one of the, one of the things people complain about or magicians complain about is that fourth coin that never, it never goes up. But part of that's the methodology because if you're holding a coin, you can be hiding other coins.

Damian (10:33.134) Mm-hmm.

Damian (10:43.694) methodology because if you're holding a coin you can be hiding...

Rick Holcombe (10:50.113) So Curtis's idea was to be holding something else so that all the coins could go away. And that idea was a flashlight. And I learned that routine. It's called remains in the light. And I learned that and worked with it. I actually have that little flashlight.

Damian (10:50.592) Right.

Rick Holcombe (11:16.801) I would often carry that with me. This is nothing in your pockets. The thing was, it's a hard routine and it looks really good, but the whole time you're holding the light here and doing the moves and then manipulating the light and it's so well thought out and it just occurred to me one day, like, you know,

Damian (11:20.302) Yeah,

Rick Holcombe (11:46.917) Nowadays, everyone's carrying their cell phone and they'll use the light on there to do stuff and I can finally get this out of my hand. And then in the process, know, many people have built upon Ross handling and they've already solved, in my opinion, the issue with the last coin with modernized techniques.

Damian (11:48.993) Nowadays everyone's carrying their cell phone and they'll use the light on there to do stuff and I can finally get this out of my hand. And then in the process, know, many people have built upon Ross handling and they've already solved, in my opinion, the issue with the last, with modernized techniques.

Rick Holcombe (12:16.961) So I put two and two together. I liked the idea of the light because the sky hooks, it never appealed to me. Like we're asking a lot from the audience. First of all, the coins are not there and there's this other thing in the air. But the idea of the beam of light, you know, taking the coin, I liked that.

Damian (12:17.336) What?

Damian (12:44.226) Yeah.

Rick Holcombe (12:45.505) And so I combined.

new techniques, sleight of hand techniques with the modernized version of the light. And then I thought, well, I could use their phone. Sometimes I do it with my own phone, but I still allow them to hold it. And then the ending is great, which is right from Curtis's routine where he turns the light off.

Damian (13:06.826) Mm.

Damian (13:15.738) He turns the light off.

Rick Holcombe (13:18.467) and the coins appear. And so...

I give all credit to Curtis really. I've just changed the props. I've changed the handling more. There's not even edge grip in the routine. So that allows you to do it right in front of somebody. And edge grip's a great technique or down's palm, but close up, you have to be really concerned.

Damian (13:25.314) Mm-hmm

Damian (13:36.398) Mm-hmm

Yeah

Rick Holcombe (13:53.495) I managed to do it all with finger palm and good angles. so, yeah, that's a good example of keeping the integrity of a routine while adding some improvements maybe or modernizations.

And if I can ever think of ways to include the spectator with any magic, that's good.

Damian (14:21.998) With any magic, that's Yeah, I don't think anyone would disagree with that. Now, when you're developing a new routine, do you start with a specific visual that you want to happen or a technical challenge or what's the creative process? We get the bit about with you footsie with the coins with your kids, but when you're when the embryonic bits, that's the more the practice when you're thinking of.

when you're thinking of something, is it a visual moment that you want to create, a technical challenge, something else, how does that work?

Rick Holcombe (15:00.343) So I'll go maybe with a few different inspirations. Number one is maybe I'm trying to solve a problem. So I, yeah, I like a routine, but not this one part or maybe the slights involved. I don't like the look of it. The second thing is

Damian (15:12.558) Like the last coin in Roth's Hanging Coins, for example.

Damian (15:19.352) Mm-hmm.

Rick Holcombe (15:32.997) Well, there's a routine in the book called double tap. That whole routine was inspired off of one move from Dr. Michael Rubenstein. And it's a display of a silver coin and a copper silver coin.

where you're displaying the coins and it looks like you flip them over in your hand.

Damian (16:04.238) It reminded me of, you know, that triumph move where you do the end for end. Do you know what I mean? Where you riffle them that way and riffle them that way. The move in that kind of reminded me of that. Do you know what I mean?

Rick Holcombe (16:12.493) Yeah. Yes.

Rick Holcombe (16:20.621) And I loved that so much. You fool yourself with it. And so that whole routine, just, I wanted to exploit that move because it was so beautiful. then I actually added to it. I put that out as a video a year or two ago and then

Damian (16:26.37) Yeah.

Rick Holcombe (16:51.095) It's in the book now with an added introduction, a prelude to the main transposition where I'm just using one coin, the gaff, as two coins. So it continued to grow even after I played with the move in the beginning. So that's...

That's maybe the second thing that inspires me. And then the third thing would be.

Damian (17:20.77) Mm-hmm.

Rick Holcombe (17:25.423) totally random and unpredictable. You never know. And an example of that is my routine recoil, which I have right there.

Damian (17:27.309) Okay.

Rick Holcombe (17:41.593) this came about, as I'm a stay at home dad just doing my thing, my daughter had on her floor a slinky, a slinky junior, which is a...

Rick Holcombe (18:02.927) about four times as tall as that. I've cut this down. And I thought to myself, man, that right there looks like a stack of silver dollars. And this is kind of dull now, but it was really shiny. for a while I was just doing this and thinking and...

You know, I would put a coin on this to cover it and I kept thinking and thinking and this is...

Rick Holcombe (18:45.635) The beginnings of this was probably 2009.

Damian (18:46.164) Right, blow me.

Rick Holcombe (18:55.299) what it eventually solved for me. So I eventually worked out a handling that I liked. And then what I realized about this was that I was solving a problem that I had for a long time with the routine spellbound, which had always been a, I enjoyed the routine because it, it's one of those tricks where you're kind of using all of your moves.

Damian (19:20.748) It's one of those tricks where you're kind of using all of your moves.

Rick Holcombe (19:25.445) shuttle passes, color changes, so like your French drop and the spellbound change and it's a fun routine because it's almost an exercise in itself. But from a spectator's point of view, it's a very linear routine. So the method becomes very apparent if you go too long.

Damian (19:37.518) mm-hmm

Rick Holcombe (19:55.639) So performing it for people over and over, I would often get this kind of flat response.

Damian (19:55.993) So performing it for people over and over.

Rick Holcombe (20:06.113) It just occurred to me it's not a great trick. It's fun, but, and there's no ending. It's like where do you go silver, copper, silver, where does it end? So recoil was, I was using a lot of spellbound techniques maybe, but instead of the coin changing color, it's changing, it's bending, it's.

Damian (20:10.862) It's fun, but, and there's no ending. It's like where, you can go silver, copper, silver, where does it end? So recoil was, I was using a lot of spellbound techniques maybe, but instead of the coin changing color, it's bending, it's going into a ball and then.

Rick Holcombe (20:34.647) It's going into a ball and then back to a coin and then stretching out and going back. And I realized this is spellbound. This is, we're changing the state of the metal instead of the color. And it's way hard to reconstruct for this spectator. It's like, are these objects coming from?

Damian (20:47.054) changing the state of the metal instead of...

Yeah, yeah

Rick Holcombe (21:03.607) It looks like the coin is unraveling or balling up. So that's the third place for inspiration to create stuff is a random object just inspires an idea and a thought. And I hear a lot of people say they're not good at that. They're not creative like that.

I would just, if I were to give advice on that, would just be to...

Rick Holcombe (21:40.547) It's almost like if you try to be original or you try to be artistic, then you never actually hit that mark. if you try to be creative, it's just going to be all that much harder. But instead, if you...

if you try to remain in a state of play. So for me, I was with my daughter on the floor in her room, and I'm in this playful spirit. And I think those ideas just, they flow into that open gate. And you're, look at this. And it's not always an immediate idea, but it began and I played with it.

Damian (22:16.11) Right.

Damian (22:26.19) It's not always an immediate idea, but it began and I played with it and it grew. So does your daughter get commission for each of the sales of recoil?

Rick Holcombe (22:31.545) It grew.

Rick Holcombe (22:38.309) Well, she gets commissioned for the doing the dishes or the laundry. If that ever happens.

Damian (22:43.518) Hahaha!

Damian (22:49.774) Now, talking of that blank face that you mentioned, seeing with a too long spellbound routine sometimes on your spectator's face, some of your stuff, like let's say the Sly Palm, is a re-imagining of a foundational move. So how do you approach reinventing established sites? And I don't know whether this is my marketing head.

But what metrics, Rick, it's all about metrics. What metrics do you use to assess if it actually works in the real world? How do you know if what you've created is an improvement?

Rick Holcombe (23:27.845) If you're not performing, I really encourage you to go out and... It doesn't matter. It could be anyone, friends, family, strangers. And the majority of people in magic are just hobbyists, enthusiasts. And don't be afraid of the word amateur because I recently learned...

I think in Charlie Fry's book, he says, amateurs from the word amor, love. So an amateur is you're doing it for the love of the thing. And so if you really want to improve and grow, you have to not be afraid of failure, get caught and

Don't be discouraged by getting caught. Just take that as a...

a learning tool to make your trick even better. And if you keep the goal in mind of where you want to be, then each of those failures are bringing you further to that goal. that'd be my main piece of advice. And some people are unable to perform for real people, but in today's

With today's technology, you can get on Instagram or Facebook or YouTube and

Damian (25:03.892) you

Rick Holcombe (25:09.977) You almost have to be more fearless because people with anonymity will say anything.

Damian (25:10.318) You almost have to be more fearless. People with anonymity will say it. that's maybe better in some ways because so many people, I think, many spectator, participants, spectators are polite. You do something and they might not see what you did exactly, but they know something fishy happened, you know. But on the internet, someone's gonna say, dude, you totally flashed.

Rick Holcombe (25:20.631) Amen.

Rick Holcombe (25:33.519) That's definitely true.

Damian (25:38.574) They won't care, there's not that societal nicety.

Rick Holcombe (25:43.896) Exactly.

Damian (25:44.877) Yeah, everybody go on YouTube, fail, fail on YouTube. Then delete the account and move on. Now, talking of things being fooling, you've described the French drop as a move that can be made a hundred times more fooling through subtle adjustments. Now, what common mistakes do you think or have you found magicians make with this slight?

Rick Holcombe (25:49.146) Yeah.

Rick Holcombe (26:07.098) Yeah.

Damian (26:13.504) And how does your approach fix those problems?

Rick Holcombe (26:18.937) Yeah, this is... So I do private lessons as well, just on the side. This is something I introduced really soon during a session. Because the French Drop is an easy move and I think it's a foundational move. You'll find it in the first chapter of most coined books. And it's hard to...

to read coin magic and get the full sense of what something should look like. So you're often given a drawing like this and then like this and then maybe like this and never point at your.

Damian (26:51.438) Sure.

Damian (27:01.216) Hmm, yeah, yeah, yeah.

For audio listeners, Rick is showing the basic things that the French drop looks like, and you know what that looks like if you're listening to this.

Rick Holcombe (27:09.784) Yeah.

And so, I mean, most people do a passable French drop, even from, you know, learning it like this. It looks okay. So my tips and ideas are just taking an old move and, and I try to do this with everything, just kind of taking from John Gustafere, these one degree little...

Damian (27:41.678) Mmm.

Rick Holcombe (27:42.969) little touches and before you know it you've added 10 degrees to this thing and it it looks so good and the main thing with this move is give it life give it movement and I really I take a lot of my coin magic from Jay Sankey believe it or not he's not known a lot for his coin work but

I remember getting a DVD, man, 2000s, the revolutionary coin magic. And back then Jay was more like, just goofy and animated and he still is now, but more subdued, I guess. And so I learned from that DVD just...

you should be moving more with your coin magic. And if you study stage coin magic, you'll probably learn this way, way earlier that, you know, body turns and, and blocking, will improve angles on things and, and help misdirection or directed attention and all these ideas. So I

Damian (29:00.6) will improve angles on things and help misdirection or directed attention and all these ideas. So I incorporated that into just the French drop after, you know, like I said, adding one degree here, one degree here, one degree here, I basically teach people this, show the coin to one side up high.

Rick Holcombe (29:10.367) I incorporated that into just the French drop after, like I said, adding one degree here, one degree here, one degree, until...

I basically teach people this, know, show the coin to one side, up high, move it around, then swing it down to the middle as you do the move and make eye contact. And then swing to your other side and hold that up too. And then, you know, naturally drop your arm and then show the vanish.

Damian (29:30.971) Yeah, uh-huh. It's cozy cozy kind of

Rick Holcombe (29:52.279) And it just feels much more alive than this right here that happens in one space. it's like, pretend you're performing for a crowd and you're showing a coin around and you take it here. It gives the movement to the coin so the audience is following this object, this shiny object.

Yeah, I try to do that with every little move I do. like, don't let it happen just here. Coin Magic should be happening, you know, on your arms, on your legs, over here, over here. In one routine I have, I actually turn all the way around and I do a three fly thing. So it's like, I'm trying to make Coin Magic play big where it fits.

Damian (30:35.8) Yeah,

Damian (30:48.459) Right sure of course of course now in the book

There is some fairly intricate sleight of hand. How do you ensure these techniques remain practical for close-up or street or like as we were talking about most people into magicka amateurs hobbyists. How do you make sure it's practical for those people?

Rick Holcombe (31:23.991) Well, the first thing is to, I've built the routines in there over the last 10 years. So I've actually performed all of that material in front of people in different circumstances. And what's in the book is the final iteration of those routines. So I can't think of

one of those routines that hasn't been changed from the original idea. Because I've worked it and I saw a weakness maybe or maybe I just cut out a whole part in some circumstance. And so...

Damian (31:57.954) Okay.

Damian (32:05.751) and you failed.

Rick Holcombe (32:15.709) Yeah, what you're reading there, it works. It has worked for me. And I felt so proud of it to write it down and publish it. So.

Damian (32:29.038) There we go, there we go. Now, talking of writing it down, you have also contributed to publications like The Hermit, and now you've got this book out. How does, and previously a lot of your teaching has been on video. So how do you find the writing process differs from creating video tutorials?

Rick Holcombe (32:50.597) Well, coin magic is maybe more easily learned on video, but I think, and this has been proven, think scientifically, writing with pictures is a deeper learning because it forces you to connect the dots. And I think people prefer

Damian (33:12.931) right.

Rick Holcombe (33:20.587) other media for learning, but the best learning comes from the written word and visualizing in your own mind. I've always felt comfortable writing. I don't know that I could write a fiction, a novel or something. I could probably come up with a story. I've always loved writing.

did well in school and all that. But I found it to be fairly easy to do. In my other life, for 20 years, I ran a restaurant. So I'm used to explaining to people, giving instructions, mediations, and learning about communication, communicating clearly.

Damian (34:14.89) and learning about communication, communicating clearly so that I don't have repeat myself to the same person.

Rick Holcombe (34:19.191) so that I don't have to repeat myself to the same person who keeps doing the same problem. You you learn how to cut out words and get to the point and that's useful for describing a complex sequence of sleight of hand movements and finger placements. The tricks themselves sort of flowed out of me, you know.

Damian (34:27.182) you

Damian (34:33.952) Sure.

self sort of flowed out of me, you know, as you run through them in your mind.

Rick Holcombe (34:48.005) As you run through them in your mind and put them into words.

There's three essays in the book too, just different thoughts on coin magic I've had over the years. And those took a longer, more thoughtful process to come out. And thanks to Josh and Andy for, Josh in particular, the introduction, he helped me almost completely rewrite the introduction.

Damian (34:56.75) three essays in the book too, just different thoughts on coin magic I've had over the years. Those took a longer, more thoughtful process to come up. And thanks to Josh and Andy for...

Damian (35:18.03) the introduction he helped me almost completely rewrite the introduction and I'd be embarrassed of the original introduction to the book

Rick Holcombe (35:24.963) I'd be embarrassed of the original introduction to the book because it had what I was saying in there kind of had no place. It didn't support the book enough. So yeah, if you're writing a book in particular, it's good to have people you can trust to give advice and read that over and proof it and make sure that trick actually makes sense.

Damian (35:37.576) right

Damian (35:54.264) Yeah, absolutely. Possibly in the book or if you want looking back over the last decade, which creation, be that a move or a routine or a teaching, are you most proud of and why?

Rick Holcombe (35:55.013) you

Rick Holcombe (36:20.165) It's very tough.

Damian (36:22.432) I know, they're all your babies, but there's gotta be something that stands out that you're like, yes, nailed it with that one.

Rick Holcombe (36:31.669) One of my favorite routines, if not my favorite in the book and in general, is called Gemini. But Gemini 2. So there's two versions in there. The first one is all in the hands, stand up, and the other one's at the table and it's... The handling's... It's not entirely different.

but there are some major changes to it. But the routine is a wild coin, which is one of my favorite premises, kind of one coin catching, I think of it as like catching a virus and it's infecting the other coins and then they all change back. So in the sit down version, I removed my silver wedding band and put a copper ring on.

Damian (37:16.398) Mm-hmm.

Damian (37:29.742) Yeah

Rick Holcombe (37:30.837) And so as I put the silver coins in, it's the copper ring that's changing them to copper coins. And the ending, I take the ring off, or I set the silver one down, and then the coins, as they just touch the ring, they all change to silver. And it's...

I think it's an elegant handling. I like the premise because David Roth originally came up with the wild coins routine from adapting the wild card plot. And his routine was very, it's a good routine. It's kind of bare bones, but it's lacking that the motivation of

Damian (37:58.255) think it's an elegant handling. I like the premise. Because David Roth originally came up with the wild coins routine from adapting the wild card plot. And his routine is very... It's a good routine. It's kind of bare bones. But it's lacking the motivation of these color changes.

Rick Holcombe (38:26.307) these color changes like what but it's better than spellbound where it's back and forth and back and forth because it's it's this progressive change and then there's an actual finale to it the coins all change back so i liked the the premise that i've added with you know why are they changing it's the power

Damian (38:42.637) Right.

Rick Holcombe (38:55.127) of this copper ring. And so yeah, the handling and the premise and it's just a nice looking routine.

Damian (39:08.438) If you could collaborate with any historical figure in magic, living or dead, on a coin routine, who would it be and why?

Rick Holcombe (39:23.011) Well, in the last five years or so, maybe 10 years, I had come to really, really love the material from Mike Gallo, who's, people throw the word around underrated. I don't think he was underrated. He was underappreciated. And he was kind of a quiet guy that seemed to keep to himself, but.

The stuff he created was so...

Rick Holcombe (39:59.685) It was quirky, you know, Curtis Kam's material is kind of quirky and it was elegantly constructed and it was fun. It made you laugh and it surprised you.

Damian (40:00.077) It was quirky, like, you know.

Rick Holcombe (40:20.121) Yeah, I would love to sit down and session with him. And I talked to him briefly once on the phone. And that was it. So all I have is the, if you don't have the New York Coin Magic seminar set, that's a great set for Coin Magic. And it has a lot of his material on there. And I might've heard a rumor.

Damian (40:20.43) Good answer.

Rick Holcombe (40:49.655) years ago that someone was making a book of his material but I don't know if that's ever happening but he deserves a book of all his ideas.

Damian (40:53.006) of his material that I don't know if that's ever happening. He deserves a book of all his ideas. He does, he does. Now, we've talked about you being able to remove edge grip from the thing and replace it with finger palms, which instantly puts your coin magic into the hands of more magicians who are scared.

of an edge grip or a scared of a pinch, whatever. Who is this book for? What's the level that you would expect somebody to have with, I know there's no grade system with like beginner, intermediate, advanced, but what sorts of things should somebody be familiar with before they buy this book?

Rick Holcombe (41:46.063) Yeah.

I can say right off the bat, there's...

three, at least three routines a novice could handle. With practice, of course.

Damian (41:59.748) Right.

Of course.

Rick Holcombe (42:05.751) And I think it spans the spectrum from beginner to advanced coin magic in there. So the whole book, if people are just watching this and hearing about this, the title Calico, like a calico cat, all the routines use different colored coins. So...

Damian (42:30.254) different colored points.

Rick Holcombe (42:37.553) Skill level wise if if you're familiar with I touch on many classic ideas Like elbow knee and neck from Darryl Just other transposition moves I There's a lot of credits in here. I mentioned Curtis cam a lot As one of my idols Eric Jones Kino a hard bottle in there Gary Kurtz

Damian (42:38.092) I level wise, if you're familiar with... I touch on many classic ideas, like elbow, knee, and neck, on parallel.

Rick Holcombe (43:07.511) So if you've read and are familiar with these people's material, you know, there's obvious and clear inspirations from them. I've taken this move here, this display from this person and infused that into my own work. So.

A beginner could get this book and do almost a quarter of the material within a week or two. Yeah. You can grow with this book.

Damian (43:35.598) A beginner could get this book and do almost a quarter of the material. Right. So there's literally something for everyone. There we go. Now.

There will be, believe it or not, people listening to this or watching this that have never tried really to do coin trick beyond a French drop from pulling it from behind their ear. What would you, and I'll let your ego go to one side momentarily, but what would you say to somebody that's never tried, because I was going to say why they should get this book, but why they should consider coin magic. Let's be a bit more humble about it. And if somebody's never really studied coin magic or tried it,

What could you say to persuade them to maybe give it a go and get as amateur with it as you are?

Rick Holcombe (44:30.021) Well

Rick Holcombe (44:35.897) I don't know why, but when I was starting out, I was just drawn to coins. And it was probably because I saw people that were good with coins in the first place. And I bought a lot of the gimmicks, like everybody. We start off by just acquiring toys. But I've come to realize over the years,

Damian (44:58.295) Yeah.

Rick Holcombe (45:06.668) you know, after sticking with it, that's maybe that's the first step. Be patient. Coin magic is objectively hard. I think we can agree, but it's, it's really just the learning curve. It's, it's a steeper learning curve in the beginning. So if you're patient, it will come. You'll be just as good with coins as you've become with cards.

Damian (45:15.898) Sure.

Rick Holcombe (45:36.261) But as I was gonna say, I've learned over the years that because that I've stuck with coins and my love for coins.

It's a smaller niche, like it's a smaller community and if you can get good, you can stand out from that community. There's just less people. And that has helped me over the years kind of make a name for myself a little bit. Whereas there's thousands and thousands of great card magicians and

Damian (45:48.751) Yeah

Rick Holcombe (46:17.175) You really have to be doing something different with cards to make people's heads turn.

Damian (46:23.544) Yeah.

Rick Holcombe (46:26.425) But that doesn't change for coins either. You have to be innovating and adding and pushing concepts forward. You can't just be good. You can't just be smooth. It's, you know what? And I think with coins also, there's more space for improvement, for innovation. Cards have just been well worn.

Damian (46:26.904) That doesn't change for coins either. You have to be innovating and adding and pushing concepts forward. You can't just be good. can't just be smooth. You know what? And I think with coins also, there's more space for improvement. Right. innovation. Cards have just been well worn.

Rick Holcombe (46:55.713) It's hard to make anything that's really new. So coins need that. We need more coin magicians to be innovating. So I would say to people that it's, coin magic is fun. It's in the small manipulation, small object manipulation class. It's a little different from cards. You know, you're always...

Damian (46:55.982) It's hard to make anything that's really new. So coin, we need that. We need more coin magicians to be innovative. So I would say to people that coin magic is fun. It's in the small object manipulation class. It's a little different from cards. You you're always...

Rick Holcombe (47:25.453) hiding and transferring coins around and...

Damian (47:25.902) Yeah

Rick Holcombe (47:31.681) It's a fun, more tactile branch, I guess, of magic. And you will stand out from other magicians. If you can do coin tricks and all the card tricks that this other guy's doing, if you want to set yourself apart, depending on your goals, if you like going to conventions and...

and meeting people and trading ideas. Or if you want to work professionally. Coin Magic can set you apart from just the other guy doing the standards.

Damian (48:09.358) Yeah, yeah. Well Rick, are unfortunately out of time, but we always end the show with four quick fire questions. Are you ready?

Rick Holcombe (48:25.604) Yeah.

Damian (48:26.466) Favorite pizza topping.

Rick Holcombe (48:28.645) Pepperoni.

Damian (48:29.986) Favorite movie?

Rick Holcombe (48:32.133) The Princess Bride.

Damian (48:35.0) favourite person or people that make music.

Rick Holcombe (48:39.267) Led Zeppelin.

Damian (48:40.566) And who would you rather fight, one massive Andy or a hundred tiny Joshuars?

Rick Holcombe (48:48.556) one massive end.

Damian (48:50.904) Rick Holcomb, your new book, Calico, is available probably now or if not very soon. So people should run along to vanishinginkmagic.com and pick up a copy with that beautiful cover design audio listeners. Rick is holding up the book. Rick Holcomb, have a wonderful rest of your day and thank you so much for being so generous with your time. I appreciate it.

Rick Holcombe (49:13.231) Thank you, Damien.

Damian (49:15.993) Boom!

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